You're about to release a boxed set, called ''The
Long Road to Freedom: An Anthology of Black Music.'' It crosses
several centuries and several continents. What's the thread of
continuity?
The oppression that caused this music to be what it was. Because
people were denied culture, denied language, denied any ties with
the past, they really had to create a whole new way to communicate
-- not only with each other, but with those that commanded the daily
agenda. The plantation songs are filled with metaphor. Later the
protest could become more open.
If we carried this forward to contemporary music, to Destiny's
Child and Jay-Z, would the same line hold?
Absolutely. You can trace the rap form back to the earliest
songs. Black music never really deviates far from its African base,
no matter what costume it brings to adorn itself.
Why include minstrel music in the set, since much of
minstrelsy was so degrading?
As degrading as the ''coon songs'' were and are, they became
essential to our survival, how those who determined our destiny
would have us be heard. And we accommodated that. To not make room
for that now is to dismiss a full understanding of the cruelty of
slavery.
Do you think the stereotypes in gangsta rap make it a new form
of minstrelsy?
There's certainly much more anger in rap than I've ever evidenced
in coon songs. Coon songs seem more willing to placate. In the rap
which we find degrading, you can hear the rage, you can hear the
anger, you can hear the self-hate very clearly defined, in the
absence of the same kind of tyranny that those who lived in the
coon-song period faced. Those rappers are caught in a trick bag,
because it's a way to make unconscionable sums of money and a way to
absent yourself from any sense of moral responsibility. It's all in
the name of ''that's the way we are.'' Well, is there more to us
than being just the way we are? Do we have no responsibility? Do we
have no sense of dignity?
You were with Dr. King days before he was assassinated. What
did you guys talk about?
America. The last time I saw him was in my home. He was in a zone
of discomfort. He said: ''We fought long and hard for our cause, and
shall prevail, but I really get the sense that we may be integrating
into a burning house. The question for me is whether or not we can
be firemen.'' That prophetic thought wasn't as well understood as it
is now.
You once described yourself as being in a constant state of
rebellion, fueled by anger. How is your anger different at 74 than
at 34?
The anger hasn't changed. I've got to be a part of whatever the
rebellion is that tries to change all this. The anger is a necessary
fuel. Rebellion is healthy.
As a teenager you passed for white. What did you learn from
the experience?
My mother, who was a single parent, used to drift from
neighborhood to neighborhood and escape in the night when we
couldn't pay the rent. Uncles and cousins would pack up the
furniture. She was very fair-skinned. She would affect an accent and
come into a neighborhood as Spanish, so we would get into a clean,
albeit poor neighborhood that was white. We'd be Greek, or Irish or
Italian -- anything but the African identity. We were able to
integrate until we had to move again. As kids we had gangs, and the
white block fought the black block, and it was expected that I would
stand with the neighborhood.
I always conveniently had something to do. It was a hard time,
but you developed a cunning and a con. And those skills still apply.
What ever happened to ''Cork,'' the Amos 'n' Andy movie you
were writing with Robert Altman?
We're still writing it. When he first talked to me about it, I
thought he was filled with absolute insanity, just for wanting to
touch the subject matter. But we talked about it, and it got at the
question of what does race really mean, and how America's really one
big Amos 'n' Andy anyway. It's about the mask.
You've been active in the fight against prostate cancer. How
is your health these days?
Better than I would have ever hoped for. My cancer is in the
fifth year in remission. BMG is talking about more recordings. I do
about 70 or 80 concerts a year.
Are you still singing ''Hava Nagilah''?
Life is not worthwhile without it. Most Jews in America learned
that song from me.
A few years ago your daughter Shari posed for Playboy. What
were the family discussions like?
Which room do we hang the center section in. She and I had our
moments. Would I have rather had she not do it? Yes. But that was
her decision, and she wrestles with life in substantive ways. And
she is cute.
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